I recently had an argument with my brother, in which he was correct on one point. I should not have called him an idiot.
As for the main point of his argument, I still do not agree that it is something worth getting all discombobulated about.
He feels strongly, very strongly, apparently, that young men who come to shul with their hat brims flipped up have no feeling of respect for the decorum of the shul. I think this is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard.
In an age were underage drinking and smoking are rampant in Yeshivas, and a time when guys are often late, very late, to minyan (if they go at all when they're off), bothering a 19 or twenty year old kid because his hat brim is flipped up is just silly.
To me, one of the most hypocritical parts of this argument, is that if the guy came in wearing a cap, baseball or other, no one would say boo, but once he's wearing a hat, the brim has to be down? It's not enough that in certain circles the stetson style hat has been given a status of its own that has no basis in Jewish law, now, it must also be worn "just so?"
I heard the argument from a cousin, that you wouldn't go on a date or have pictures taken at a wedding with a hat brim up. I'd say a person's relationship to God is personal, and YOU might come in with a blue shirt, who is to say that "hat brim up guy" does not see that as the height of chutzpah? Others chimed in that it's just an IN YOUR FACE statement by the younger people. And if it is? I'd say that's fairly innocuous as these things go.
When you live in a world were every single guy you know and go to school with looks like you, white shirt black pants, it is certainly possible that you want to a)be different, or if everyone of your age group is doing it? b)be that much different from the older generation.
My brother said it's only a problem if you wish to lead the davening. If you won't put the brim down, then you can't. Again, each shul is welcome to their own set of rules of decorum, but in an age where so much has become contentious, this is just another way to alienate the younger generation making religion once again into a place of choking made up rules by those who think they are being "frummer."
There is a problem of respect and decorum in this younger generation, mainly because parents are too busy making sure their kids are "happy" all the time then teaching them right from wrong. A chance encounter in shul, in which a kid is put on the defensive will impart nothing except ill will. The hat brim at best is indicative of a problem, if you believe that, not a problem in and of itself. Treating a fever without finding and treating the actual disease is pointless.
Maybe it's time for ballei batim to pick up the phone after an off shabbos, and actually SPEAK to a mashgiach or Rosh Yeshiva, and tell them what happens when the boys come home. Explain how they look sloppy and messy and don't seem to have learned about the kovod of a bais hakenesses, and it puts their status as a "ben torah" in jeopardy in the eyes of the rest of the community.
I really doubt that the HKBH will not accept the tefilios of a congregation in which the chazzan wore his hat brim up, but I am pretty sure that when shul becomes a place of discord, fighting or even alienation, He will not be too pleased.
8 comments:
maybe the hat brim up is just a symbol that the bochur does not want to be called upon to daven? Also in my son's school the boys have to wear a hat to davening but if they are wearing tefilin the hat has to sit at the back of their head so they have to leave the brim up so as not to crush it. Mincha I suppose is another story. I agree with you that if they wore no hat or a different head covering no one would care at all, and as to the "in your face" aspect of it I agree again that it seem pretty innocuous.
I really do not get the entire culture created around a HAT.
You remind me of a story I heard about J.P. Morgan on his return from Europe. He was asked if there would be war and he responded that there would definitely not be a war. The analogy here is stick to what you know instead of pontificating on something way beyond your purview. Maybe listen to those who actually have experience in such matters. Opinions are good, but without any basis whatsoever they are just hubris.
Amen! that's why we don't wear black hats! too much judging on the chitzoniyus
Way beyond my purview?
Who is it that suffers from Hubris?
Just because a few men who mostly come from the same background of nitpicking and alienating when it comes to shul matters, or matters of such SLIGHT importance in yiddishkeit, Isay something, does not mean I need to listen. I'm more than a little skeptical about taking their word for it.
I don't think a baseball cap during thw week is a problem. Many people do it. However, if someone came in to shul with a baseball cap askew, sideways or backwards, it would be as bad as a fedora with the brim up. The issue is respect for the sanctity of the shul, davening, and Tzibur.
i think you are all nuts. hat brim up or hat brim down? what are you talking about!
The brim itself is irrelevant, its the statement or culture behind it, similar to the gangs that wear their pants low, gang colors, and yes, hats askew.
the mishnah brurah says you should wear a head cover by davening and he means something more than our standard head covering that being said that extra covering can be anythin black hat, baseball cap, ski cap, tallis, or even a lace doily however once you are going to wear a black hat you should wear it right and in that i mean with the brim down because you can be sure if you went to the president although i wopuldnt advise meeting this on you would definetly wear your brim down if you wore a hat and i reitarate you dont have to wear a black hat just a head covering
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